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‘The Phoenician Scheme’ Is Here, With Wes Anderson!

June 6, 2025/ 75 min/ Sean Fennessey · Amanda Dobbins

Sean Fennessey and Amanda Dobbins review Wes Anderson's 'The Phoenician Scheme,' then Sean sits down with Anderson himself for the first time in the show's history.

12 films across 3 segments.

AI-generated This episode was transcribed and analyzed with AI models. The matches aren't perfect — expect the occasional misheard title or a link to the wrong film.

'The Phoenician Scheme'Wes Anderson · Focus Features · in theaters

The Phoenician Scheme poster

The Phoenician Scheme 2025

Benicio del Toro plays Zsa Zsa Korda, an unkillable tycoon who survives his sixth plane crash and names his estranged daughter Liesl (Mia Threapleton, Kate Winslet's daughter), a novitiate nun, sole heir over his nine sons, then drags her through a globetrotting caper to fund a giant Phoenician public-works scheme. Michael Cera plays Bjorn, a Norwegian tutor and entomologist; the cast also runs Riz Ahmed, Tom Hanks and Bryan Cranston as the 'Sacramento boys' (a two-on-two game of horse), Mathieu Amalric, Richard Ayoade, Jeffrey Wright, Scarlett Johansson as cousin Hilda, Benedict Cumberbatch as half-brother Nubar, plus Bill Murray as God, Willem Dafoe, F. Murray Abraham and Charlotte Gainsbourg in black-and-white afterlife tribunals. Dedicated to Anderson's father-in-law, the Lebanese businessman Fuad Malouf, on whom Korda is loosely modeled. First cinematographer other than Robert Yeoman (Bruno Delbonnel shoots it). Amanda found it very funny and playable as pure caper; Sean, on a second viewing, read it as a linear, deeply thematic film about fatherhood, mortality, faith and how the powerful lie their way through the world. Both moved by it; Sean calls it minor-to-middle Wes but urges a rewatch.

Sean's top 10 of 2023as he left it that December, dug up over the 'did we do Asteroid City dirty' debate

Oppenheimer poster
No. 3

Oppenheimer 2023

No. 3. Half of the Barbenheimer year that Sean thinks buried a lot of great films.

The Zone of Interest poster
No. 6

The Zone of Interest 2023

No. 6: 'like, that's dumb,' i.e. so good it being sixth shows how deep the year ran.

Asteroid City poster
No. 8

Asteroid City 2023

No. 8. The peg for the whole tangent: Sean thinks he and Amanda undersold it, never put it on their top 10s, and let it slip by.

In conversation with Wes Andersona big-picture first: Anderson on 'The Phoenician Scheme'

Saint Jack poster
Wes Anderson on

Saint Jack 1979

Anderson's last great thing: Peter Bogdanovich's film with Ben Gazzara, which he travels with on Blu-ray and screens in hotel rooms. On the movie itself, he says it began as a story about an unkillable ruthless businessman and became, organically, a father-daughter story, shaped by the fact that he, Del Toro and co-writer Roman Coppola all have daughters. He wanted the violence to carry a 'delight' without being less horrible, credits a small in-house studio system (producers Jeremy Dawson, John Peet, Steven Rales; storyboarder Jay Clark, storyboard editor Edward Burch, designer Adam Stockhausen) for four films in five years, and says the Criterion box of his first 10 films let him see his own life play out across them.

Also mentioned raised along the way

Wes Anderson's filmography The Grand Budapest HotelThe French DispatchThe Life Aquatic with Steve ZissouThe Darjeeling LimitedHotel ChevalierThe Royal TenenbaumsFantastic Mr. FoxMoonrise Kingdom

In passing SicarioThe War of the RosesThe RosesPast LivesShowing UpThe Iron ClawKafkaSchizopolisThe Limey

Teased for next week Ballerina

Not films filtered out: TV, games, ads

TV Below Deck

Podcasts The Zach Lowe ShowThe RewatchablesSplit Infinitives

Named only in ad reads Final Destination BloodlinesLilo & Stitch

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